Don't look at the claims that Obama will be taking 'from the rich'. Think, “Obama will be taking from *my boss*. Where will I work then?”

True, but its not even just “the rich”. My business is a separate legal entity from me. If he taxes my business harder, that affects me even though I am not rich. Again, one of those things that people engaged in the class warfare just don’t think about.

Oh jeez….I post one measly political post on this blog, now I’m getting political ads on the site. Yikes.

It’ll be nice when this election ends.

Obama really turned me off when he said he wanted to tax the oil companies and use the money to fund a second economic stimulus package. Robin Hood might be good for fairy tales, but it does not bode so well for capitalism. There is nothing wrong with making loads of money and when you begin to penalize that, it is borderline socialism. I don’t mind John McCain so much, but Sarah Palin scares the hell out of me. She’s so far right that she’s off the chart. I think I will vote for Monty Brewster in this election.

Two points:
(1) We’re voting for McCain here. Palin is the VP.
(2) Palin has been positioned and smeared by the Obama camp with the same skill and dexterity as has been applied to building UP Obama’s image. So, just like Obama is a bit of a mirage, I tend to think the image of Palin they’ve concocted is a mirage, too. And unfortunately, the mainstream press just plays along.

Here’s the details to Obama’s Tax Plan, http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/taxes/Factsheet_Tax_Plan_FINAL.pdf

“And he even wants to now give tax rebates to people who never pay taxes in the first place.”

I don’t see the rebate you are talking about.. Get the facts, don’t just hang out on FoxNews, this is your kids’ future, learn for yourself.

First off, why is it that every leftie immediately attacks Fox News when somebody writes an opinion counter to their’s? It is like some kind of reflex with you people. An electrical circuit that, when fired, must discharge. Very funny.

If you do any reading about his plan at all, you will see that he believes in doing tax rebates. Immediate rebates designed to boost the economy. I have read of no limitation in his plans to send this money only to people who pay more than that amount in taxes in the first place. So, what that amounts to is a tax rebate going to people who either pay less than that amount as it is, or none.

I would invite you guys to learn about your own candidate instead of focusing on the usual, left-wing knee-jerk reactions to Fox News and talk radio - even when not remotely applicable.

First of, not every Obama supporter is a leftie. I’m Republican turned Obama Supporter. The problem with you right wing cronies is all you care about is your party and I’m fed up with that.

McCain’s choice of Sarah Palin just shows how unreal he is. I choose Obama because he is real.

“If you do any reading about his plan at all, you will see that he believes in doing tax rebates.” I’ve read the FULL tax plan many times, tell me specifically which section made you think he believes in doing tax rebates. Honestly, if you tell me, I will re-read that section and let you know.

I agree wholeheartedly with this article. The sanctity of life is my first concern here and then the health of the economy and the rest follow.
I have suffered loss of income cuz of the economic troubles the past year and if O gets elected I will be in the mud for YEARS, as will all of you.
I hope we can defeat the media elite and the O campaign. We really need a Palin-influenced McCain in the White House.
Oh, how I will rejoice if they pull it off, if they don’t, omg, I can’t imagine the sick feeling I will be overwhelmed with….

Notice how the Obama tax plan essentially resets it to the way it was when Clinton was in the White House. Under that tax policy, the economy was flourishing. This whole ‘redistribution of wealth’ talking point is kinda tired, since any tax does just that, regardless of who it goes to.

About this wealth redistribution stuff…remember, Obama simply wants to let the Bush tax cuts expire, and let the top rate go back to 39.6%. Is that socialism? Was it socialism in the 90s? I don’t think so.

Second, and more importantly, there is not a single person who does not pay taxes in this country. True, not everybody pays income taxes; the working poor do not. But everybody who works pays Social Security and Medicare taxes, and for a good chunk of the population, these are far greater burdens than the income tax. Plus, everybody who buys gasoline pays the national gas tax. States have sales taxes, property taxes, excise taxes on alcohol and cigarettes, and so on. The point here is that to focus only on the federal income tax misses the bigger picture. I can’t think of one Obama plan that involves taking money and giving it to people who don’t pay any taxes at all. An economic stimulus rebate like the one we just had should be discussed, true, but so far there are no details or plans for that.

Finally, McCain. He used to be honorable. In 2000 he ran a very honorable campaign, and he railed against the Rovian tactics that Bush trotted out against him (remember the out-of-wedlock black child smear on his adopted daughter?). So what does he do this time around? He hires all the people who smeared him to smear Obama. It’s honestly really sad. I almost never agreed with McCain on anything, even his “mavericky” stuff like CFR, but he was a decent guy. Not this year though.

I’m not American and I live in the UK: yet the thought of Sarah Palin having any power other than a mains cable up her scares me sh-tless!

America could turn into a Christian Fundamentalist dictatorship with public executions of unbelievers and incarceration for speaking your mind. There’s a chance4 it could become like England was in the dark ages - And the worst thing: If it happens in America it is never long before it happens in England too.

Personally I don’t fancy being publically whipped because of my beliefs; neither do I want my blog banned because it doesn’t support a Biblical agenda according to Sarah Palin or agree that dinosaurs roamed the earth with people 4000 years ago.

Please do the world a favour and vote Obama in; unless you’d prefer all of your business dealings to be censored by the religious police for compliance with the fundamentalist agenda, your apartment searched and contravercial material, such as anything that questions or critically analyses anything secular, removed.

Say hello Palin; say goodbye freedom.

Maverick!

> “The problem with you right wing cronies is all you care about is your party and I’m fed up with that. ”
Jeez, how do you have a real discussion with these people? First, its Fox News. Now I’m a right-wing crony. You obviously are a robot stuck on automatic. In goes a little shock, out comes the typical output. [sigh]

Oh, and Sharron, I think you have a gross misunderstanding of Palin. She and I do not share religious views, however if I thought, for one moment, that she would have anything to do with the stuff you mention, I’d NEVER vote for McCain. She might not be very experienced, I’ll grant that. But, these fears that she’d want to bring on the new Salem witch trials are just ridiculous.

You’re still cool, though. Go Mac!

Glad I came across your site, loved the article that brought me here and to see that you are anti-Obama made me even happier.

While I have pretty much come to realize that he will most likely win I am reserving the right to say I told you so to all the morons that voted for “O” . That is of course if I still have the right to free speech in a couple years.

People he is a SOCIALIST if not a MARXIST. Do your research read the pillars of the communist manifesto then compare that to his platform and speeches.

To the Brit I think you need to worry about your own country, we do not want to live like you. You people give up your rights as the wind blows.

I will vote for McCain. “Country first.”

Look I want to be neutral here for a second. Obama says one thing and McCain says another. EACH side says they “miss stated the fact, etc.” Who is telling the truth? I ask you who?

I watch Fox News because they are “fair and balanced” they talk to each side both on there good points and bad.

This Democratic Congress is the worst one I’ve seen in my life time and I’m still very young. I wish somebody could be fired. Why can’t they do something.

Good Posting David

Oh yeah I agree with Landshark: Britain sucks; it has done so for a very long time in some ways. In certain places on my blog I’ve said so: The class system that stifles innovation and success in all but the upper classes is still somewhat evident…Blah.

This is about the US elections though. I’ll comment on British politics no doubt when a UK election happens.

I don’t want the UK to get worse than it is; it’s bad enough already. If the wrong influences drift across from the US, then it could go further downhill.

As a side issue; UK politics is unfortunately very unlike US politics: Here the politicians elect the politicians; the UK people decide which group of politicians will be in power, and the politicians in power run their own agenda from that point on: The UK people just have to put up with whatever they get until the next election: Like I said; the UK sucks.

Look, I’m sorry, but when people say that Obama is a Marxist, or even a Socialist, I simply can’t take them seriously. Either they are deliberately lying, or they don’t know what Socialism means.

Socialism means the government control of large swaths of the economy. Nationalizations. Is Obama calling for the nationalization of any industries? Does he want government ownership of telecom companies, mines, transportation? Not that I’m aware of. The only U.S. politician in recent memory that can be claimed to have Socialistic tendencies is our president, George W. Bush. He has essentially nationalized AIG and is planning on government ownership of many, many banks. That is a step towards Socialism, and it’s a step that the Republican administration has decided is necessary.

Letting the Bush tax cuts expire is not Socialism. A progressive income tax is not Socialism. The fact is, the Bush tax cuts have made the tax system in this country tilted very much towards the super-rich. Warren Buffet challenged the CEOs of the country’s largest companies to prove that they page a higher marginal income tax rate than their secretaries, and they couldn’t do it. Sure, they pay millions more in taxes than I do, but is it fair for me to pay a 20% tax rate on my income when they pay 10% on tens of millions? That’s not terribly fair in my book.

I’m a free marketer too, and I generally want to simplify and shrink government. The one major exception, where I agree with Obama, is health care. We need universal health care. Will it be perfect? Of course not. But the U.S. spends far, far more per capita on health care than any other country in the world, and we don’t cover 40 million people. We have worse health outcomes. We have lower life expectancies and our infant mortality rate in minority communities is shameful, absolutely shameful. Does the U.K. have a perfect health care system? France? Canada? Nope, none of the above. But they are all measurably better than ours. To put it in geek terms, we are still running Windows ME when the latest Ubuntu is available. Why are we ignoring evidence?

Furthermore, universal health care would be a huge boon to bloggers and other small business owners. How many people stick with their 9-to-5 jobs simply because they need the health insurance? Universal health care would greatly increase job mobility and greatly increase new business startups, both of which are needed to keep the U.S. competitive in a highly nimble, tech-centered world.

Finally, the old “trickle-down” theory. Yes, people with the money employ others. But they aren’t hiring you because they have a lot of money to piss away and they are feeling generous. They hire you to make money, and that requires selling other products. Now, everybody can’t be a Lexus dealer: most businesses sell to the middle class. Henry Ford said he priced his Model Ts so that his factory workers could buy them. A strong, vibrant, healthy middle class is the key to sustainable economic growth. When the middle class pulls back, it greatly affects the economy. The middle class under Republican rule has become much worse off. The rich are doing great, but the vast majority of the people in this country? Not so much. And the stats prove that the economy does better under Democratic presidents. Again, how can you ignore real evidence?

Look, people can have reasonable differences of opinion on Obama and McCain. But saying that Obama is a Marxist is completely ridiculous.

Obama doesn’t scare me, but Sarah Palin does (funny how you don’t mention her (or the other people McCain associates with showing poor judgement).

And no she hasn’t been smeared by the mainstream media. She hasn’t been able to answer tough questions when there have been follow-ups and she can’t dodge them. And the media has just done the kind of investigative reporting on her record they’re supposed to.

And yes, when you’re voting for 72 year old McCain, you’re saying that Sarah Palin could be president at any time.

And you’re being elitist (and wrong) thinking that younger (or older) Obama supporters don’t know history and are swayed by marketing.

And they have learned about Obama. They’ve read his books, his position papers, watched his speeches, and the debates.

Perhaps they don’t want a Supreme Court which will turn even more to the right for decades. Or the candidate who has a better science and technology policy.

The exact details of policy aren’t what drive me to vote for Obama. They’re important but not essential. When the rubber hits the road, the policies are going to get warped by congress and the exigencies of the moment.

No, what drive me is character, and I look at McCain and see a dangerously erratic personality. Under his leadership, the campaign has lurched from message to message, with frequent changes in staff and a vice presidential pick that has people wondering about his mental health. Even five minutes worth of work would have caught the whiff of scandal in “Troopergate” and left her behind. Add in some of the other strange things he’s done and you get an image of a seriously unstable personality.

Obama, on the other hand, has remained stable, focused, and resolute. He hasn’t fallen for their baiting insults. He has stuck to appealing to folks’ better natures. He’s offering hope and reason rather than fear and hate.

We will be in for a rough time the next few years, but I doubt that the Obama presidency will be as bad as you conceive. Economics isn’t as simple as you think; when you move money from one realm to another it doesn’t disappear. Money taken in as taxes goes out as interest on debt, salaries to Federal employees, payments on contracts, et multiple cetera. It continues in the economy. What shifts is whether that money improves the lives of Americans as a country, or just to serve the elites; whether that money is invested in things like education, infrastructure, or stability, that strengthen the country, or on war, oppression and chaos, which weaken it.

Ok, when Obama says he does not take back his statement that spreading the wealth is a good thing, then that smacks of income redistribution. Hence, we say he leans heavily towards socialism and the idea of Marx’s ‘to each according to his need.’ Which is totally opposite the Protestant work ethic that made the US the richest nation in the world. Over-taxation certainly didn’t get us here.

The hellish irony of this campaign is that it was the liberal Democrats in Congress meddling with Fannie Mae and preventing Bush, Greenspan and McCain from regulating their GSE cash cow with the whole mess getting started by Jimmy Carter and being heavily pushed by Bill Clinton in the form of the Community Reinvestment Act that has our economy reeling AND WHO gets the blame? Bush and the Republicans!!!

So, if this economic crap sandwich causes Obama to get elected, we will be triply screwed, by none other than liberal Democrats and the unfortunate fact that the party in control during economic crises gets the blame and gets ousted. It truly could lead to a economic depression if the cards fall the wrong liberal way.

Look, Obama is actually the Anti-Reagan, with his disdain for the free market and distorted liberal philosophy. He will pull in the opposite direction Reagan did, with all the prosperity we have enjoyed for the past couple decades.

But the first issue that tells any thinking man that Obama is serious trouble for America is the fact that he won’t do a damned thing to stop the killing of an 8 1/2 month old fetus seconds before its birth, an act which the great Democratic senator, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, said was ‘near infanticide.’

Any of you out there who cannot see the terrible evil of partial birth abortion are truly blind and in great moral confusion.

God, I hope and pray that Obama loses and a Palin-influenced McCain wins the presidential election!

Here’s my two cents on some of the issues

============
Tax Plans
============

To call Obama’s tax plan a redistribution of wealth is just ignorant. If giving more tax breaks to the wealthiest isn’t redistribution then how is it different when you give tax breaks to the middle class? The economy was far better with Clinton before Bush gave the richest tons of tax breaks, and now McCain wants to give them even MORE breaks?

When is this trickle down effect going to pay off? Bush has been giving the wealthiest tax breaks for 8 years.. just when is it going to happen? Instead all of our money is going to foreign investors and markets, and the wealthiest are still trying to find more ways to keep more money themselves.

============
Morals/Ethics
============
As a Christian and a family man, I don’t see McCain as a ethical person, family man, or moral leader. He cheated on his first wife while she was injured in a car wreck and then divorced her. He was THE main player in the Keating five scandal, and he has no social/communication skills. He is constantly getting angry with the press (even foreign).

Also, Palin’s time as mayor/governor shows how shady she can be. Now I know we probably don’t know the whole story about many of these rumors, but if you’re going to mention Ayers and Acorn then I might as well mention Troopergate, spending of funds of living expenses that didn’t exist, the bridge to nowhere, and paying for her children to fly, etc.

Ayers - Barack barely knows him. Barack probably had no clue about this guys past before he met him.

Acorn - This is an organization which was doing good things in the past when Barack was working with them. However, Barack has no ties with them at all now, so how is anything they do his wrongdoing?

============

Also as a side note, Landshark’s statement that he may not have free speech if Obama gets elected is pretty funny considering Palin herself was pushing to ban certain books from her library.

============

Barack is a leader and can unite us and get us back in to good graces with the world. We need to quit thinking that we alone are the world’s police and wasting resources on mistakes like Iraq.

timaay,

1. If you are going to argue a point, have evidence. Saying that someone has a liberal philosophy is quite broad, and you didn’t back it up.

2. Under Clinton, we had economic growth. Obama’s tax plan is quite similar.

3. Obama has no disdain for a free market. He says this: I believe that America’s free market has been the engine of America’s great progress. It’s created a prosperity that is the envy of the world. It’s led to a standard of living unmatched in history. And it has provided great rewards to the innovators and risk-takers who have made America a beacon for science, and technology, and discovery.

4. Out of the two of the Repub candidates, Palin has spread loads of hatred towards the Dems. Look at the fruit, my friend. McCain-Palin rallies have guys shouting “Kill him!” and “Off with his head!” or even “Terrorist!” Violence begets violence, and hatred begets hatred.

David, thanks for the posting.

One of the things I love the most about being an American, is we have the ability to speak freely about our views on the candidates and the positions they stand for.
I am not a big fan of either candidate. I think Obama has the likeabilty factor going for him and John McCain has Sarah Palin.

Given the fact that neither candidate can break the magic 50% barrier, should speak volumes about where we as the American people see these two individuals.

David I agree with you on the Tax issue. People/Companies that make more money than I do, provide the jobs not the other way around.

So when Obama states he wants to Spread the Wealth around I can see no good coming from this.

Like you I am voting for McCain/Palin and hoping for the best.

Justin,

Kudos for dealing with issues and avoiding the insults I usually get from Obama supporters.

1. Please don’t tell me you don’t think Obama is liberal. I find that astounding. But you want proof? You got it.

First, a liberal is one who primarily looks to government intervention for taking care of society’s ills. They favor higher taxation and lean towards the needs of groups over the individual among other things.

In a review of his senatorial votes for 2007, National Journal deemed him the most liberal senator for that year. Out of 66 votes Obama voted 65 times the liberal way.

He favors increasing taxes by his history and his statements. I don’t for a minute believe he will give 95% of the US a tax break- he has NEVER voted for a tax cut and I doubt he’ll change his stripes.

He has an extreme view of abortion- even to the point of criticizing the Supreme Court’s upholding of the Congressional ban on partial birth abortion. He also voted against the Il law that would make medical providers seek to save the lives of children who failed to die during an abortion. This is egregious and extreme. Again, the ugly word, infanticide, rears its head.

His statements about spreading the wealth are completely of the modern liberal viewpoint. It smacks of Marxism as I have already shown.

Face it, the man is incredibly liberal.

2. Clinton governed as a moderate liberal, far from Obama’s history and intentions as president. Much of the said prosperity was leftover from the Reagan revolution- good public policy has long term effects.

3. Free Market. I also heard Obama say that the current financial crisis we are in is due to the free market, that is hardly being a proponent.

This crisis rests squarely on the shoulders of liberals in Congress giving fangs to Carter’s Community Reinvestment Act, spurred on by Clinton. Barney Frank, who to his shame, was carrying on a homosexual affair with a principal of Fannie Mae while he was one of the congressional leaders overseeing said organization, and Chris Dodds, Maxine Waters and some other liberal senators and representatives BLOCKED Republican (read, Bush, Greenspan and McCain) attempts to provide MORE regulation NOT DEregulation as Obama lies about to this day. And they did this repeatedly over several years as this bomb was collecting strength. This is the Democrats’ Enron, which is having a MUCH more devestating effect on our economy than the original Enron. Hear the liberal Democrats opposing the Republicans trying to rein in Fannie Mae. Even President Clinton said they share the blame for this tragic federal government caused crisis.

4. It is a flimsy argument to blame Gov. Palin for stupid, impassioned remarks that her audience spews out, as if she inspired them directly and gave her approval. Kill Him is totally wrong. Off with head? Come on, that is a line from Alice In Wonderland and is totally meant figuratively. And Terrorist? Jeez, Justin, the guy BOMBED people! That, my friend, is terrorism, if you can’t see that you are either hopelessly confused or deliberately deceiving yourself.

And, what about the hanging of Sarah Palin in effigy? That is a hate message, pure and simple. Can you imagine the frothing at the mouth the mainstream media would do if it was Obama hung in effigy? Cries of racism would echo all throughout America. But, since its a conservative, well, it is of little concern to them. Sigh….

Now, for a real big issue with me: I see from your blog that you claim to be a Christian. There is no way in HELL anyone can make the argument that Christ would approve of the killing of millions of fetuses (read babies), largely for purposes of convenience, in our modern society. I urge you to take your faith seriously and stop supporting an extreme abortion advocate. You are not your own, you have been bought with a price. I am truly aghast to find out about your faith.

OMG the Crusades are starting.

Dominae, Padre, Espiritum Santu.
Pax vobiscum. Gau de tae Yesu Christum Dominea Rex.
Nils et du terra carborrundum illegitomii.
Transmittae mae cirtum caledonum.

Oh, come on you guys. Elections are all a dog and pony show designed to make you think you have choices. Who chose these candidates? You? Or was it a matter of which candidates the MSM was pushing the hardest? Think about it. Which candidates were pushed and which ones were marginalized? And where was the coverage of the real issues that effect your lives, and where the candidates stand on those?

The people in power are laughing at how dumb you are, that you can’t see to what degree you’re being manipulated.

Time to wake up, people. Or should I say sheeple? It doesn’t matter who you vote for or who gets elected. Both candidates are wholly-owned subsidiaries of Wall Street and corporate America. They’re the anointed ones and neither one will represent YOU. Their loyalty is to big money, period. Haven’t you caught on yet? How long does this have to go on before you see what’s actually happening? It doesn’t take a rocket scientist. It does take some critical thinking, something that hasn’t been taught in this country for decades. (Duh, I wonder why?)

No matter who wins, you’re screwed. How deep do they have to shove it before you realize that?

Oh, sorry. Nothing going on here, folks. Please move along.

Who are these people who “don’t pay taxes”. I want to join this group. I didn’t know you could avoid taxes.

Yeah, well this sheeple is fed-up with it. What the F— can we do about it? This campaign has been going on for way too long and we still don’t know diddly-shit nothing about Obama. Everytime he gets confronted with something he said, he comes back with “oh, that was just an idea” or “just a concept” or whatever!! Who is this guy? What is this guy? Is he actually going to stand by something he says? When? Is anything he says on the campaign trail going to stick for more than a week? On the last debate the approval meters would start to climb as soon as he opened his mouth… wait folks he hasn’t said a word yet and he’s already climbing with the approval meters?

With less than a week left, are the candidates actually going to bring up the real issues that we as a nation are facing?

Palin scares the hell out me too! Which is worse, burned at the stake for practicing witchcraft or burned-alive inside your Christian church by Obama’s cousin?

yonnie,

You’re supposed to be confused. That’s part of the setup. You’re conscious enough to sense something’s very, very wrong with the whole show. And it is a show; it’s show biz. Literally.

These guys are both politicians. They’re going to change their positions like a chameleon changes colors. Anything to get elected. And McCain vacillates just as much as Obama. McCain is downright scary, too, in that he’s Bush all over again. This is not to say Obama is a great choice, either. What it boils down to is there is no choice. That’s the setup.

At primary time there were only two candidates with real principles, one Republican and one Democrat. Did you notice what happened to them? Did you see how the media treated them and marginalized them? These were the only ones out of both fields who would actually represent the people, so of course they were dispensed with. We are not allowed to have leaders who would represent us, the taxpayers. We’re only allowed, through media manipulation, to think we do. The other thing we’re allowed is to foot the bill to make the rich even richer because government corruption is systemic and endemic. You notice that?

Regardless of who is elected it’s likely to be more of the same, dressed up by the media to make it look different. Hold on to your wallet and keep a tight a**hole, because we’re all in for more of a screwing.

The only hope is that people, like you, will continue to wake up and see what’s really going on. Keep in mind the elite know how to play on people’s fears and prejudices in order to pit them against each other. It’s the divide and conquer strategy and it’s being applied very effectively right now. Pay attention and you’ll see how it’s being done.

A million Iraqis have died because of Bush. That’s blood on our hands, too. Let’s not think about that, though, let’s focus on gay marriage or flag burning or terrorism or whatever the fear-based distraction du jour is. Our economy is tanking thanks to Wall Street’s greed, but let’s talk about Palin’s wardrobe while we stick the taxpayers, and their grandchildren, with the bill. When will people have enough of this? Oh. Let’s go shopping.

Eventually a critical mass will be reached and people will realize that they are in fact being screwed, and that they have much more in common with each other than they’ve been manipulated into believing. They’ll wake up to who their real enemies are, and they’re definitely not the ones they’ve been told are their enemies. It’s all distractions, smoke and mirrors.

God bless Bush because he did more to raise the awareness of the American people to the level of corruption in our government than any other president in the last century. Still, there are folks out there who don’t get it yet because they can’t see past the deliberately placed distractions designed to divide them. I’m hopeful most eventually will.

In the meantime, we can all work on becoming more conscious by turning off the TV, not accepting what we’re told by anyone in authority (and that includes the media) because authorities consistently lie, educating ourselves as much as we can, closely observing what is going on, really thinking about it all, and helping each other. Eventually we’ll come to see how it all works, and that things are definitely not as they appear. We’ll see how our similarities outweigh our perceived differences, and that those differences were imposed on us by manipulative people who wish to divide us.

At that point we’ll not only see clearly, we’ll be worthy of leaders who will unite us.

Peace to all.

good luck with your elections America

Amen to your observations. One talking point the Dem’s continue to drive home is that McCain voted with Bush 90% of the time. What the Republicans fail to mention is that Obama has voted the Democratic party line 98% of the time.
The liberal media and hollywood types are pushing hard for their candidate and Obama’s managers and foot soldiers have run a smart campaign. It dosen’t hurt that his campaign chest is buldging with funds.

[...] last post went into my reasons why I plan to vote for John McCain for President. The post has gotten a lot of commentary. But, did it generate so much buzz that it [...]

No, Sharon, not the crusades, at least not yet, but don’t encourage me- I can get quite passionate.

This is strictly logic, truth, integrity and accountability.

Tim,

There was a lot said there, so I’ll likely miss some. Actually, I only want to respond to two major ideas.

Just because someone votes to a particular side doesn’t make it a bad thing. Looking after the group as opposed to the individual is actually a very attractive idea to me, and I’ve done my best to follow that. I see no reason why we shouldn’t do that. As far as taxes are concerned, he hasn’t voted taxes up on those 95%, so I have no reason to think he will.

Now with regard to abortion. I am pro-life, and have never said otherwise. Obama has been the only one that has an actual plan for reducing abortion, which is far more than I can say for either Bush OR McCain, both staunch pro-lifers. If actions speak louder than words, I am much more in favor of Obama’s handling of abortion than McCain’s, simply because I have more confidence that something will be done about it. All sins being equal, I don’t think there is a chance that Jesus would support demonizing other countries like Iran and Iraq, which is exactly what has been done. I also don’t think He’d want us to sit by while genocide occurs, at home OR abroad. Nor do I think He’d approve of people having to fend for themselves when it comes to staying healthy, or being fed. Truth be told, nobody will ever fully agree with any presidential candidate, and the fact that small differences between you and I are already causing division is pretty sad indeed. Next time, just email me or PM me if you want to question my faith. The public isn’t the right place to do it.

Justin,

I took the time to answer your points one by one. I’d appreciate you returning the favor. But perhaps doing so wouldn’t jibe with your political philosophy or theology.

You cannot be truly pro life and support a man for office who speaks nicely about preventing abortions but his actions prove he carries an extreme view on abortion rights. Barack Obama made a promise to Planned Parenthood in July of 07 that his first piece of legislation to sign as president would be the Freedom of Choice Act which would overturn all laws that provide any type of restriction on abortion in America, such as taxpayer funding of abortion prohibitions, parental notification and the ban on partial birth abortions.

The points of mine you so conveniently neglected starkly illustrate the extreme abortion views Obama holds. You cannot reconcile that with a Christian pro life view, so I completely understand why you ignored them.

Your other point on the equality of sin regarding our war on terror and opposition to Iran’s killing of our troops and health care and the feeding of the poor do not equate to the killing of innocent unborn life, 98% of which are largely for reasons of convenience. Don’t get me wrong, I help feed the poor, I do see its importance, in fact, I cooked for about 200 homeless men this very morning, but the importance of caring for them is much, much less than the importance of protecting innocent human life. To say otherwise is to obscure the moral duty that your faith calls you to.

I admit I had reservations about calling you out on abortion in light of your professed faith. It is no small thing for a man to publicly question another man’s faith. It is only the grave danger to millions of unborn children’s lives that motivates me to do so. Our faith is based on truth, not the obscuring of issues. I call you to reevaluate your stand, it is a very dangerous one for a Christian to take.

Amendment to last paragraph above:

It is only the grave danger to millions of unborn children’s lives (and to your own soul) that motivates me to do so.

Tim,

Obama believes in reduction of abortion by education and informing people of the sanctity of life. I never ignored your point there. Your sarcastic tone doesn’t make me want to continue this discussion, so in my books it is over.

1. Vote for McCain - Vote for Veterans!

2. Vote for Obama - Vote for the yellow belly sapsuckers, and dishonor Veterans.

So if you choose to vote for Obama, as is your right as an American born in America ( which Obama wasn’t), then you should exercise another GOD given right Americans have and leave the country, before the lines are too long!

I have never seen Obama put his hand to his heart, have you? Obama saids that he wants to make it better for women to get equal pay as a man, then why didn’t he take Hillary for his runnig mate, instead of a man? I know for a fact Obama’s wife had something to do with that. So if we get Obama in the white house it deffently will be Mrs.Obama running the country.

I disagree with your distribution of wealth comment. Yes, the rich do pay the majority of taxes. But with all of the loopholes, they effectively pay the least amount of taxes. Then you talk about your own business. If more people in the middle class get a tax rebate, like under Obama’s plan, then that means more people to spend money on products you’re offering, premium memberships on PCMech, etc. Also, how do you feel about Sarah Palin taking the reigns if something were to happen to Mccain?

Is there a section for those of us who are tired of all the bickering between you righties and lefties? People, please: it really is ok to admit the candidates are BOTH shmucks. Honest! Did no one ever explain about choosing between two evils? The lesser…well, if your IQ is above ‘vegetable’, you already know what I’m getting at.

The lines are so blurred now, the devil you know IS the devil you don’t. So take my advice, friends: take a deep breath and turn off the news feeds. Go outside, flip off your neighbor, affix your ‘Apathy Now!’ bumper stickers on your gas-guzzling mini-Shermans and head on over to your favorite polling station. When the little curtain closes, write-in your vote for Mickey Mouse (or that devilish little minx of his, Minnie). Walk out with a shit-eating grin, wink at the men and hi-five the women, because no matter who wins tonight, everybody’s getting f*cked come January.

What should make all of us sick is not merely how apathetic we’ve become but how PATHETIC we are. What ever happened to the real patriotic spirit? The yearning to achieve a perfect union? The will and the fortitude to go out and do what needs to be done? I am repulsed by the realization that apparently those fine qualities which started all this a few centuries ago are dead and buried with the last of the real patriots.

Long live Mickey Mouse.

Not much up on American politics, but I feel this is possibly going to be a history turning moment for Americans either way. I have been reading a bit by a guy name of Daniel Pipes at danielpipes.org. Is this guy for real, he tries to make a connection between radical Muslim and Obama. I don’t hear anyone in the larger media speaking about it, what’s up?

Quote of Justin’s: “Obama believes in reduction of abortion by education and informing people of the sanctity of life. I never ignored your point there. Your sarcastic tone doesn’t make me want to continue this discussion, so in my books it is over.”

No, he does not. What he believes is, judging by the evidence I previously quoted, every woman can have an abortion at any time for any reason, including a full term baby seconds away from taking her first breath. Egregious.

I think it’s the evidence you originally asked for and refuse to address that bothers you more than my sarcasm. If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen- is that your motto?

It fills me with anger when so-called Christians refuse to stand on the side of innocent life. Pathetic and very, very dangerous. It would be the same if I said I follow Christ but believe that black people should be enslaved. Repulsive and loathsome.

You, sir, have earned my contempt. You need to take a good, hard look at yourself.

The question is if Obama does get in what will you do?
Is he the right man for the job or what?
Will he change his policies to go with the new job?

You Got My VOTE !!!

it fills ME with anger that Christians think they’re such hot shit that they can force everyone else into their mindf*ck delusions.

Get over yourself. You’re talking about killing people who don’t even exist yet. Whats more, you’re shamelessly attempting to mesh church and state, which if you’re any kind of good American at all, you’d know thats WHY we’re all here. Who the hell are you to try to effect policy change based on your beliefs in SantaJesus? You DO know you’re not the only ones here, yeah?

If YOU don’t like the heat, YOU should get out of OUR kitchen. And you damn well better slow your roll when it comes to my uterus, because I don’t believe in your god and I certainly don’t - nor will I ever - give a rats ass what you think is right or wrong, nevermind cave in to your hypocritical and arbitrary rules.

People like you are the reason our founding fathers ensured there would be separation of church and state - religious nutjobs govern like religious nutjobs.

You need to learn you have no say and you never will. Dem’s da breaks, JohnBoy.

David,

I am appalled at how twisted your views are on politics. You are obviously an inspiring mind in the world of PC’s. However, if I construct a computer in the manner you have constructed your political views nothing I put in that case will be compatible.
YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO SUPPORT JOHN MCCAIN. YOUR ARGUEMENTS FOR DO SO ARE FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED.

First, wealth redistribution is inherent in this country tax code and IT IS NOT SOMETHING NEW that Barak Obama is introducing.
Secondly, YOU ARE BLATANLY WRONG. Do your homework David. It’s the Middle Class who pays the majority of taxes. They do so by reason of their population. The have more than two hundred millon middle class people in this country David. You cannot find 75 million millionaires in the country. Have you seen the MATH, David.
Thirdly, Earn Income credit relates to people who work, but dont make enough to offset the scale of poverty. Thus, the government assist them by giving them a tax relief. David, THEY DO WORK. There are not sitting on their butts with their plate outstretched.

David what Barak Obama is proposing is to give them an opportunity to pull themselves up a litte by their boot straps. The wealthy dont need tax breaks. So what if they can’t acquire that Second 100ft. Yacht they wanted for sail to the south of France next summer. 2000 people were able to avert foreclosure because of Joe millionaire missed trip with his new Yacht to France.

Are you getting the message David? Beside, I doubt that you make 250 thousand per year. You are not affected.

Giving tax rebates to people that do not pay taxes is a joke. Then again, I do see a lot of “Jokers” in office. How else could you explain giving welfare to illegal immigrants.

Melissa,

This country was divided on the issue of slavery just like we’re divided on the issue of abortion. Sooner or later, things are going to come to a head. Some have even spoken of possible civil was over the killing of babies. I hope it doesn’t come to that.

This is not a matter of religion. It is a matter of ethics and logical thought. A fetus is a human baby by another name. If left safe in the mother’s womb it ALWAYS grows into a breathing human being and should have the same rights you enjoy as a survivor of the womb and a former fetus. Simple as that.

Mark,

I suggest YOU do the math. According to data released from the Latest Tax Year Released by the IRS 86% of all federal income taxes are paid by the top 25% of income earners in America. Read em and weep.

It’s amazing how people rationalize their thinly disguised ignorance, fear, and prejudice with their biased “facts”. If most of you would strop for a moment and sense what your spirit is telling you, you would have a starting point to identify your true motive for your opinion on these candidates. Everyone has an agenda. Their agenda is what will ultimately benefit their position usually financially. Very few care for others without expecting something back. How do we tell the difference, by the fruits of their labor. Has McCain ever walked, ate and slept among the poor? I’ve served in the military and as a community worker and in my opinion, it takes more love, decency, and leadership to volunteer to help others.

Let me ask a question, how many people even remember Bush’s promises when he ran? He ran on many conservative points. He promised to withdraw American troops from unnecessary conflicts. I am a former Marine and a Democrat yet I supported Bush on these two key promises. We all can pretty much see that he lied and in fact only used religious beliefs to further his agenda which was to further enrich himself as well as his followers. McCain was one of his followers.

Values/Character
McCain has been in the senate for over 30 years. Why is there no solid evidence of his effect on this country? He abandoned his wife and married a young rich girl, 17 years his junior

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1024927/The-wife-John-McCain-callously-left-behind.html
John McCain’s Skeleton Closet

Barack Obama – A dedicated husband and father to one woman

A woman whose wealth is tied to the selling of alcohol and who also stole drugs from the charities she was supposed to support

» Cindy McCain: Drugs, Lies, Intimidation, Theft and Cindy McCain

Michele Obama – A Harvard trained Lawyer with no criminal background

Service/Experience

35 years in the senate. Where has he been and what has he done?

A war hero or a spoiled military brat? 894 out of a class of 898. Who knows what really happened over there as stories are often embellished. Why has he voted against veterans so often? Also, anyone who would place someone as unprepared and stupid as Palin in the driver’s seat of this country is doing a great disservice to this country.

Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain
TheHill.com - Obama outscores McCain in veterans’ group’s report card
What has Obama really done in the US Senate? Using the Library of …

Tax Plan
Is he really against Bush’s tax plans? Haven’t we tried the trickle down effect and where are we now? Corporations and the rich are becoming increasingly rich because they outsource or mechanize the jobs, making them money but increasingly destroying our job market. It is hard to believe that even at the brink of a Depression people can not see this. Especially in the tech world, so many of our jobs are now overseas. Under McCain’s plan the wealth is distributed to outside sources that allow the rich to keep as much of their money as possible. Obama is saying it should be made available to Americans. Small business will get tax breaks for hiring Americans. Jobs people Jobs!!

Political Affairs Magazine - Truth About McCain and Taxes Doggone It
How The Rich Elude The Tax Man: The Devastating Results Of
Why Obama’s Health Plan Is Better - WSJ.com

BTW, how many of you “keep your wealth” rejected the stimulus check that was “distributed”? Don’t you get it…Obama is fighting for the majority of us who make $250,000 or less. We will need help to stay afloat in this new economy as the rich have drained all resources and monies from us. The only way to get it back into circulation is for them to release it. Ever played MONOPOLY before?

Healthcare Plan

On his healthcare plan, we wouldn’t use the money he proposes to give us to buy our own healthcare because our company’s plan is better but we would still get higher taxes on the company’s plan under McCain.

elaborates on it…

Judgment

Palin?????? Nuff said

Education

Educational Background:
Obama:
Columbia University - B.A. Political Science with a Specialization in
International Relations.
Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude

Biden:
University of Delaware - B.A. in History and B.A. in Political Science.
Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)

vs.

McCain:
United States Naval Academy - Class rank: 894 of 899

Palin:
Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester
North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study
University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism
Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester
University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in Journalism

Now, which team would you hire ?

Character

Obama wins hands down. McCain is angry and mentally scarred. His war mongering ways will only lead to more wars. We cannot fight Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Russia, Venezuela, and yes even Spain simultaneously and at this time. Obama would open doors to world allies and a new period of reconstruction in this country.

And finally, for those science fiction nuts, who compare Obama to a Christ like effect, have you seen the movie the “Omen”? Who was born into power, a military family, suffered and made deals(possibly with powers for power/riches) to avoid more torture, abandoned his wife/family and marital vows to marry a political heiress tied to money and alcohol, whose mother looks strong enough to live forever, and has a hidden birth mark on his body?

Don’t vote based on your fear and hatred of Black People, Ignorance of the facts and proven history, manipulation of the media. Pray and Hope for Change.

It is amazing to me how the ones who claim not to be racist will say shit like this: “Don’t vote based on your fear and hatred of Black People”.

There is one group crying race right now, and it is the left.

I think one person is angry and mentally scarred, and we just saw it.

David,

You seem personally disturbed by my statement. By the use of foul language and stated identification of the “left” you display your bitterness and biased psychogenic position on this matter. BTW, I am not race baiting or hating. I am simply stating what everyone knows is a key issue in this race. Many Blacks are reacting with PRIDE for a African American/White candidate finally reaching so far. Others are reacting with PREJUDICE that an African American /White is reaching so far. We ALL should vote on what they offer America. As I stated before, I voted for Bush and I dislike Clinton but as I understand more what politics is about, I don’t fall the misdirection, fabrications and manipulations especially coming from misguided autocrats. Simply put, no one in their right mind would consider putting Palin so close to the Presidency, hence McCain is CRAZY (or maybe she is his next target for a wife)!!

Huh hum. OK. “BTW, I am not race baiting or hating.” Like I said, huh hum. OK.

I’m glad my blog has given you a platform to digitally vomit. And thanks for the page view. It pays my bills.

LMAO!

Oh, I was reeling from all the things I wanted to say to Sage but, David, you’re response says it all. I was literally guffawing when I read it. Brevity is the soul of wit. Kudos.

Mark,

I suggest YOU do the math. According to data released from the Latest Tax Year Released by the IRS 86% of all federal income taxes are paid by the top 25% of income earners in America. Read em and weep.

David! David!David!

Oh how doeth my soul ache for thee!

You have grossly mistated the above mentioned report. While the report indicated that 86% of the fedreal income tax is indeed paid by the top 25% of the income earners; DAVID, those earners are people who made 62,000 and above annually. Therefore, SIR, that number does not represent the rich only. 62,000 per year IS NOT RICH that’s making it, and that is relative to where you live and work.
What YOU FAILED TO POINT OUT is that the same report indicated that those who made 365,000 and above paid only 39% of the income tax. Who paid the remainding 61%? Folks like you and I, except you make 250,000 and above.

David, know when to hold em. know when to fold em. Know when to walk away, and know when to run. Run away from McCain. These cowboy policies with Joe the plummer-who has no license and owe the government back taxes are like Sarah Palin bridge to no where. Don’t take your wonderful wife and child down that street David. You will get them no where, Fast.

Remember George W.Bush? He was going to save America. He was going to protect America from its enemies and keep us save and secure. Thus, the country went to sleep and trusted Georgie to keep them safe. The alarm bellowed in the wee morning hours and America awoke to a nightmare. We were attacked. No! it was not AlQuida. It was not Iraq. It was our Social security, 401k, pension, Bank accounts, Mortages, and loans-ALL GONE. But, Georgie is going back to CRAWFORD TEXAS TO HIS RANCH. Vote for McCain and later you will find yourself standing at the end of that famous ALASKAN ROAD with no where to go. You will now be in a Sorry and Appalling State-> Sarah Palin State.

David, I’m glad to contribute to your blog, bills and hopefully, education. Your Rosanne Barr witty comments truly are impressive, especially to armchair activist like your “guffawing” buddy ( He probably sat next to Palin in class) but do not equate to intelligent dialogue. True equality is what you really fear. Even some of those who claim they are Christians sadly believe that their faith is superior to other Christians. Thankfully, there are some like Obama, who rise above such divisive attitudes. So make your child-like one liners while your buddy preaches away, regardless, Change is coming.

yikes! this sure has been an interesting exchange of ideas to say the least. I am impressed when bloggers open up there sites to opposing ideas. I just wish the other parties had such a following, things would really be interesting then. If I could give my opinion here I would like to say that if Churches and individual Christians were all to do the right thing and take care of the poor and defenseless then Obama would have no reason to “redistribute” anything.

I can’t figure you Americans out, with only having two parties to choose from? Talk about painting yourself into a corner. To vote for; you have a 72yr. questionable old man with an inexperienced running mate almost 30 yrs. his junior. The age the average American males die at is 72yrs. …hmmm What a contrast. He should be retired; FDR was approx 63 when he died in office.
If we had this system and situation in Canada I’d sure be concerned. On the other hand you have another questionable man who would fail an American Security Clearance procedure, amongst many other little red flags, it would make me even more nervous. As well he’s getting touted by some ex President who couldn’t keep his pants done up or find the proper place for his cigars. Having a token “well meaning” 65 yr. old white guy for his running mate, I really doubt he will have any influence or impact on the President if he ends up as VP. It really is all too bizarre. You guys really need to get a better system to avoid this kind of conundrum again because every time you guys have your election we get a steady stream of thousands of thankful new immigrants.
You have to see this from the outside to understand how silly and ridiculous your whole election system looks to the outsider. You don’t leave yourself a way out, and judging from this blog you live in a constant state of fear and mistrust of each other especially during election. That’s what made the Civil War so stupid and sad. Having said all that I don’t see we’re much better in Canada except our elections are shorter and sweeter.

Wow. It’s a convention of sheeple, where the few thoughtful posters are ridiculed with infantile blather, and those doing the blathering are complimented on their stunningly unconscious comments. How impressive. Why, it’s just like high school, only even more pathetic because it’s adults engaging in that same kind of petty, brainless behavior.

You argue over stupid, meaningless issues while the people on top are f**king you in the ass. Evidently you’re too desensitized or unconscious to even know it. You’re oblivious as to what the real issues, the ones that effect your lives, even are. McCain, Obama, abortion, who pays what in taxes? Give me a break. God gave you brains, why don’t you use them? Why don’t you stop letting others tell you what’s important and what to think and think about?

I wonder, sheeple, was the brainwashing painful or painless? Does it feel good to be incapable of the tiniest shred of critical thought? How does it feel to be utterly blind to what really goes on around you? Do you really WANT to believe what you’re told, without question, as long as it supports your fears and prejudices? Will you ever wake up? Is ignorance that blissful?

And the people at the top of the food chain? They’re slapping each other on the back over how successful they’ve been at creating such an ignorant populace - YOU - and laughing their asses off at what complete fools you are.

And you? You think you’re smart. Ha. Maybe some of you are smart in the conventional sense, but you are so unconscious it takes my breath away. Most of you are only capable of repeating what you’re told. The lies you buy into without question.

Oh, never mind. Nothing going on here, folks. Nothing for you to see, please move along.

timmay:

I went no further than the word ALWAYS, because that is possibly the most ignorant thing I’ve ever read. Please cite the data you used to make the statement above (how a baby ALWAYS grows into a breathing human being…your silly words, not mine). Miscarraige, much like the Jersey Devil and the Holocaust, must be a myth, eh? Everybody knows babies ALWAYS come out alive and breathing. What was I thinking?! How on Earth did I not notice?!

Watch out for the puddles.

On another note, religion has everything to do with the topic of abortion. Religious people are intolerant and power hungry and they go to great lengths to take control of our bodies because of their beliefs. And that right there is the exact problem in the US: they want to legislate a health matter according their own religion. Now I don’t have a problem with people who mind their own business; the people I take issue with are those among you who are trying to force your beliefs and dogma on us. We leave you alone…why can’t you reciprocate? More importantly, why do any of you have this twisted notion that you have the right to quash everything that offends your beliefs without regard to the billions of people on this rock who disagree with you?

I feel like a broken record. You arrogant jerks think you’re special. I agree that you are, but its more of a kid-with-helmet-on-the-tart-cart special than anything else. You people need to learn your place and quit acting like you’re some sort of authority because of your faith, because it really makes you look like the ignorant f*cktards you are.

If Religion plays no role in politics, please tell me why you want to control my uterus, if not because your cult says its naughty. Don’t worry, I’ll wait.

MMM

Melissa,

I don’t really take issue with the fact that you stand on the woman’s right to choose. It is WHEN that right to choose ends that is the problem. Women have the right to choose when and when not to have sex, and if you choose to do so, you had better be prepared watch the workings of the human body unfold. Thinking that you can just be carefree with your body and shirk the responsibility of a sexual relationship also means you forgo the right to choose after conception. At that point, your body has already committed itself to conceiving a child, and those are just the facts. This isn’t about how close we can get to the line, it is about responsibility. The attitude that says we just won’t care has already been started by this recent generation of parents who are addicted to video games and TV, and look where it gets us. I’m sorry, but when a woman touts her right to choose AFTER she already chose to have sex, with or without protective measures, I can’t take it seriously.

Hello,

Good blog. I appreciate your point of view.

I agree with some of your blog. Disagree with most of it.
I’m only going to look at one point for the sake of time. When your talking about “marketing” and “image”. I very much agree that most of us are very succeptable to marketing. I work at a high school. Just stop by any ol high school in America and look at what the kids are wearing and there you go.

I tend the think that the Republican party has had a stronghold on this area though, its just that I believe the American people have sort of caught up with them in this election. In my lifetime I’ve witnessed 3 GOP presidents. I’m still waiting for that party to deliever on ANYTHING they have ever run on. From 1980-1992 and from 2000-2008, we saw our government get alot bigger actually. It only got smaller under a democrat. Proof is in the pudding at this point for me. John McCain used to be perhaps my favorite Rep, simply because he did stand up to his party. This campaign has proved he has little backbone. If he wanted to win this election, and he still might cause I have a great distrust of the election process. If John McCain wanted votes, he should have said right from the start “the Republican parties policies have failed”. Only recently did he enumerate how he differed from W.

Its my opinion that is an extremely complex election. I voted this week for BO. I believe I made the right choice. Afterall, we all believe that or we wouldn’t cast our votes. In the end I think we are seeing the negative by products of both fically libral systems and unreglation on the conservative end. I think BO is thoughtful. He is smart. You don’t graduate cum laude from the Harvard school of Law without some serious hard work and grey matter. I believe BO will approach these problems that our nation is facing with the same thoughtfulness and diligence.

Thank you for allowing me to comment.

Justin,

You would have a point if you didn’t just imply every pregnancy is a result of a deliberate decision and that only whores want abortion as an option. Let me guess: you don’t possess babymaking parts. Big shock.

On my planet, pregnancy can be known to threaten the life of the mother, birth control sometimes fails, and rapes happen every day…not to mention the fact that nobody really hopes for a disfigured or retarded child. Most women (myself included) would mourn such a pregnancy the same way they would the death of a child, but a lot of women (myself included) would also find it morally wrong to continue such a pregnancy, because NOT terminating the pregnancy equates to not really giving a shit that you’re handing down a life sentence to an innocent child. Most parents, if not all, want the very best for their child and would find it reprehensible to find out early on that there was some sort of devastating defect yet continue selfishly on anyway. Religion enters the debate at this point, because some would argue that their deity always has a reason and a plan, but who can live with that? Who would want to? It seems a bit f*cked up to just….accept that your lord has decided you don’t get to have a normal baby. It seems insane to believe a just god would deliberately handicap a child, doesn’t it? The nutjobs would have us believe all these genetic mutations and diseases like spina bifida and of course the rape-babies(!) are all part of the plan, and I find that morally reprehensible.

Naturally, this brings us back to the “Lesser of Two Evils” argument. Lets see….piss off the conservatives or decide to make a child, yourself, and your family suffer because some higher power’s gonna spank you if you don’t choose misery.

Unless I’m missing something, I personally find it very clear which choice is obvious, and I will stand up to anyone who wants to take that choice away; they don’t have to live my life.

MMM
Sometimes being a good parent and protecting your child means saving them from a lifetime of misery.

Melissa,

I’m not sure that continuing on with you will accomplish any good. I highly doubt you will change your position no matter how devastating my points may be to your stand. But, you asked, so I will try to respond to your points. And your insulting tone is totally uncalled for and only makes you look like a bitter, harsh woman, losing opponents often resort to insults when they have no debating ammunition. But I doubt you will change that either.

Quote: “Religious people are intolerant and power hungry and they go to great lengths to take control of our bodies because of their beliefs.”

Actually, you are describing liberals to a tee. They have no tolerance for dissent from their views. They will insult you, belittle you, but rarely argue powerfully against you. They also want to control other people’s lives, hence, you get governmental intervention in the most unfree (is that a word?) ways imaginable- they are considering making it illegal to smoke in your own apartment in California, or to walk on the sidewalks while texting. What liberals often do is project their actions onto their opponents in debate. I want no power over you and I tolerate you, even when you’re messages are filled with vitriol and scorn. I just don’t want you to grievously hurt another human being.

Quote: “You think you have the right to quash everything that offends your beliefs without regard to the billions of people (who disagree with you).”

Actually there are undoubtedly many things you do that offends my beliefs that I am not trying to quash. I don’t badger you to drive more carefully or attend the kind of worship service or wash your socks frequently, I want nothing of the sort. I just don’t want you killing a baby.

Quote: “Please tell me why you want to control my uterus.”

You can do anything you want with your uterus as long as you don’t initiate force on another innocent human being.

Now, Justin actually made some good points. He is basically talking about 98% of the abortions in America which are done solely for reasons of convenience. You are talking about the 1 or 2% of the “hard cases”. I would be willing to consider allowing abortion for the hard cases such as rape, incest or when a mother is very close to dying if she gives birth, not that damnable “emotional health” clause . but not for a baby’s physical defects either.

Quote: “a lot of women (myself included) would also find it morally wrong to continue such a pregnancy”

Your argument here actually carries a lot of weight. Why saddle a child and its family with the terrible suffering it may bring if it has a grave defect? Makes sense, to voluntarily cause such suffering would be cruel and harsh. But the point you’re confused on is by the time you find about the baby’s birth defect the baby is already alive. The situation you are trying to prevent is already existing, there is no way to prevent that which has already happened. So at this point it is immoral to kill this child strictly because it is physically defective.

To do so would be stating that defective people have no right to life. It would be like Hitler’s eugenics and his extermination of handicapped people in German and beyond. I, myself have a congenital defect in my neurology, does that mean I should be put to death? Well, then, neither should the defective child.

It is never being a good parent when you kill your growing baby.

Tim

While I like your website, your political views have obviously been tainted by the “liberal media”.
U.S. media are rapidly being monopolized by a dwindling number of parent corporations, & each of them have conservative economic agendas. The media are also critically dependent upon corporations for advertising. As a result, the news almost completely ignores corporate crime, as well as pro-labor and pro-consumer issues. Surveys of journalists show that the majority were personally liberal in the 1980s, but today they are centrists, with more conservatives than liberals on economic issues. However, no study has proven that they give their personal bias to the news. On the other hand, the political spectrum of pundits — who do engage in noisy editorializing — leans heavily to the right. The most extreme example of this is talk radio, where liberals are almost nonexistent. The Fairness Doctrine was designed to prevent one-sided bias in the media by requiring broadcasters to air opposing views. It once enjoyed the broad support of both liberals and conservatives. But now that the media have become increasingly owned and controlled by corporations, conservatives defiantly oppose the Fairness Doctrine. This is probably the best proof that the media’s bias is conservative, not liberal.

With the help of John McCain, George Bush has grown the government more than any president in history. He has spent more money, he has hired more people, he has expended into more countries, expended the power of the presidency, he has taken away more freedoms than any president in history. (His supporters have also killed more innocent people than any president in recent history.) Clinton has wet dreams about the kind of money that the Republicans have spent. Which is the small government party? Come on man, are you out of your mind? Don’t get me wrong, all government people scare me, but McCain’s experience at stealing from me and taking away my freedoms scares me more than Obama’s plans do (most of which will never get enacted, face it.)

Hey David - just read what you said about Obama and I agree completely. I’m not very political myself and in the past wasn’t a real big fan of McCain, but I beleive he is the better of the 2. Obama scares me as well.
Been reading PCMech. for about 6 years now and just got gold membership a few months ago and reading your political views just reinforces my notion that I’m spending my money in a good place here.

How could anyone read what I wrote and think I’m a McCain supporter? The problem with American is that apparently it’s full of Americans. Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding on what to have for dinner. Do you really want the average person you know deciding on who should be pointing guns at you?

The reason why government does not work is that the country is filled with a right of entitlement. I dont have to look for a job because Ill collect unemployment, I dont have to worry if I can afford another child the governemnt will support it if I cant. This attitude even extends to outside the United States. Every disaster or unrest our troops go and we foot the bill with cash and lives.The UN which is our troops and military equipment services the world. So excuse me, I would like change too, but Obama sure wont do anything about these issues because they are at the heart of the Democratic Party.

I totally agree, he scares me too…..mostly his ties he holds with others. I can’t believe he has made it this far. People need to wake up & get the facts.

“”Comment by timaay on October 31, 2008 @ 3:09 pm
LMAO!

Oh, I was reeling from all the things I wanted to say to Sage but, David, you’re response says it all. I was literally guffawing when I read it. Brevity is the soul of wit. Kudos.”"

Hey David, To you and your smug a__hole friend timaay, how’s this for brevity……..LOSERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To Sage and the other Obama supporters, and to President-elect Obama:

Congratulations on the win, you deserve it.

I make some points about the conservative movement’s comeback. Counterattack!

http://tinyurl.com/624sqy

What if..it was President-elect John Mccain? which Mccain would show up? After all, at one time or another, he’s been on EVERY side of EVERY issue. Check out this link to ssee a small subset of McCain’s Flip Flops:
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15227.html

Gotta admire the intellectual gymnastics of a man who can vote against his own bills in the Senate or, is both for and against abortion; for and against gay marriage; was opposed to the Bush tax cuts, now is vehemently against them; criticized Jerry Falwell in 2002 as “an agent of intolerance” but now seeks his (and received) his endorsement! The only reason he espouses his current right wing views now is because he has to pander to the far right Republicans to get elected ( insert Sarah Palin here…).

This is a man who has spent his entire political career pandering to the other side to get get elected and to pass his legislation. The reason he has “reached across the isle” to get things done - his own political party cant stand him!

And, i fully would have expected McCain to have appointed CONVICTED DOMESTIC TERRORIST G. Gordon Liddy to a top level Cabinet position. Maybe say, CONVICTED CROOK Charles Keating for Secretary of the Treasury - nothing like a crooked banker to oversee the full de-regulation of the banks and Wall Street, ehh? (Since that de-regulation thing works so well for the banks!).

And expect

Boy! The debts McCain would have to pay back if got elected President! All those Lobbyists that he put into top level campaign positions will be requiring payback… Lobbyists, VP candidates waiting in the wings to stab him in the back, convicted criminals to appoint to high level positions. I dont think we could have afforded a McCain administration, much less a possible subsequent Sarah Palin administration. Thank God for President-Elect Barack HUSSEIN Obama!

Hmmm very telling post. I like the guy too and the historic value of the election is not lost on me. BUT…that wealth redistribution and govt. all up in my business…hmmm. I sit here and look at myself, a black woman, who just happens to be mormon….I mean I am the SI unit of minority. However I work hard to learn, to grow, to be. I do not want hand outs. I want opportunity to grow my talents. I know Barack is a liberal, I can only hope for the best. As for me I am off to figure out the itunes podcasting feed kaffafle it is driving me batty! Arrrrgh! help.

Party Plan Pat : “I mean I am the SI unit of minority.”

In truth you are whatever you choose to be. From the above statement it appears that ‘the SI unit of minority’ is what you’re currently choosing to be. No politician can change that, not with any policy; only you yourself can change that.

As you can see, you were completely wrong about President-elect Obama.

Obama - a Marxist? Did you really buy that spin? Now that he’s about to assume the office you see he has stacked his cabinet with those of a center-conservative bent. In my opinion? I ONLY WISH Obama were a socialist. Capitalism has failed as an economic system that does little more than fuel materialism, consumerism and making a small fraction of people VERY wealthy. Issue after issue (health care, on and on) capitalism has proved that it cannot work for the good of the people - but for the private gain of the few.

One day, American elections will be free enough to allow REAL socialists on the ballot - and not just as token candidates - but will full rights to debates, the airwaves, etc. Corporate rule in the USA is ending. Socialism, for the people, is on the way. But with Obama? Not hardly.