Confessions of a Six Figure Professional Blogger

Is Wordpress Getting Hostile With Developers?

View Comments | Posted In Opinion by David

We love Wordpress. And, yes, we love the fact that it is free.

Wordpress is also GPL. Thesis (the popular premium theme) is not GPL. Matt Mullenweg thinks it should be. The argument is that, because Thesis is a “derivative work” from Wordpress, it is required to also use the GPL. There is a counter-argument, too, which says GPL doesn’t apply.

But, the debate got louder today and now there is even talk of Mullenweg suing over the issue.

Here’s my take…

Oh, GPL. Oh, How Confusing You Can Be.

Simply put, the Wordpress platform and community benefits from a community of developers creating add-ons, whether they be free or commercial. The community benefits from having that option. I believe that trying to shame or force a developer to give their work away for free is not only wrong, but will harm Wordpress.

There are a number of premium plug-ins that are quite good. I’ve also paid for Wordpress themes. I am not a customer of Thesis, but I recognize why so many want to use it. Same goes for Headway. Do we actually want to use a platform where that kind of innovation is met with scorn by people who think everything should be free?

Or is “free” even the issue? I gotta say, it is rather confusing. Is it because Thesis contains some encrypted code? Plus, there is the whole debate about whether a theme is even a derivative work. A theme doesn’t modify anything with Wordpress – it simply makes function calls that Wordpress put there specifically for themes. If a theme developer extends the capability, using their OWN code, does the whole thing come under GPL just because he may have used these function calls?

Perhaps, ultimately, the GPL itself needs some sort of clarification. That whole “derivative works” clause seems to lead itself to problems. I don’t want to get into the arcane details of open source licensing, but GPL is, in my view, too restrictive. The “copyleft” restrictions are just too much. This is the very reason that PHP itself changed its license away from GPL starting with version 4. Otherwise, development on the PHP platform would be stifled because everything developed with PHP would be subject to these same issues. A BSD-style license just makes so much more sense.

I applaud people who develop on the GPL license. The Internet would be a very different (and worse) place without them. However, this whole idea of using it to force their will on others – that bothers me.

Getting Hostile With Developers?

Here’s what I see, though. I see a guy who put a lot of work into a product (Thesis) and decided he wanted to charge people to use it. To me, that seems like his right. Nobody has to get it if they don’t want to. Wordpress provides plenty of hooks for such things. Thesis uses them to meet a strong demand in the marketplace.

And I see Mullenweg (at least judging from his Twitter account) essentially being a passive-aggressive snob, retweeting other people’s attacks on Thesis. What I see is Mullenweg trying to use a mob mentality to shame Chris Pearson into making Thesis GPL. This is not the way a professional acts, IMO.

Mullenweg is making Wordpress development look like a pretty bad bet right now. And if this mentality goes so far as to stifle development of commercial add-ons for Wordpress, that will be the beginning of the end of the “major platform” status of Wordpress. Mark my words.

For people who will claim the GPL promotes freedom of choice, I think trying to shove the GPL down somebody’s throat is about everything BUT choice.

I love Wordpress because of its flexibility. I LOVE the fact that there are so many plug-ins and themes available for it. I LOVE the fact that I have options to BUY more premium-level add-ons if I so choose. THAT’S choice.

I want to love Wordpress for years to come. Please don’t screw it up.

If you’d like to chime in, I’d love to hear from you. The open source license scene is anything but easy to interpret. :)

UPDATE:
Not that I’m following this whole thing closely, but I happened upon another post written today by Jane (she works for Automattic) who gives another viewpoint on this, plus some backstory. Worth a read, for sure. I’ve never met Chris Pearson nor Matt Mullenweg. I can only judge what I saw Matt doing on Twitter today, and I thought it was pretty messed up. But, it usually takes two to tango, and apparently Chris is doing the jig, too, at times.

One thing is for sure, this debate comes down to a philosophy difference. Very fundamental. I’m not sure anything except a court case will truly resolve it. That said, I won’t hold my breath on that actually happening. But, if you’re at all thinking about doing non-GPL stuff on Wordpress, realize Matt might gang up on you. :)

One thing seems clear: Wordpress isn’t all that inviting to develop for anymore. I learned something about Wordpress today, and as of today, I no longer look at the product the same way. Still a fan, but it smells.

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  • Matt replied on Twitter to me ans said there are a tons of developers out there making money with premium themes (better than Thesis) under GPL. So if this is true I don't see why he's taking the trouble to harass Chris.

    It seems that Chris is loosing an opportunity to make "tons of money" under the GPL so why does Matt care?!

    This whole thing is silly and the fact that it makes Chris look "bad" is even worse... Especially for Matt is worse as he points the finger to a good guy who did an awesome job with Thesis - and as you said is his right to charge for that.

    And I really don't see how the WP community is suffering..?! Nobody is suffering coz Thesis costs money since there are other products out there for free. As long as people can choose free pr paid themes it's normal that developers could also chose too whether their work goes out for free or not.

    I used to think Matt is a generous guy. The fact that he wants to dictate what WP software goes GPL feels like a dictatorship.

    I stress the fact that the community is okay with Thesis being proprietary (and those who aren't okay with that and want to have it for free... well those are not cool - and I wonder how would they feel if their work, no matter what field, will fall under GPL all of a sudden).

    Matt, stay cool as you used to be! Chris, keep doing an awesome job!

    I am okay paying for stuff as well as taking it for free as long as the creator of that stuff gives it away for free. I don't use Thesis, I don't even use WordPress but I love honesty, common sense and business.

    The next thing we may hear is that all content on WordPress is GPL... - take it, duplicate it, sell it as your own - it's on WP so is GPL.... :-|
  • Sam
    What I don't understand is, how is there absolutely zero protection for the themes?

    Technically speaking the GPL only applies to the code, not to the images used.

    So the theme developers can still issue a cease-and-desist if the theme is distributed by someone else without permission because of the images, javascript, and css files used...
  • This has been done multiple times with thesis as well on fiverr. Gpl or not it's going to happen dude.
  • Yes, but the difference is that Thesis, because of their license, is able to combat this, whereas WooThemes has zero defense against it.
  • Felix
    In cases like this, it might be possible to sue for trademark infringement. Matt suggested this in the interview with Chris on mixergy.
  • Might be, but I'd like to know for sure...especially if I were a WP dev.
  • The whole thing has been an interesting debate. I've got to say that I don't see the legal basis with which Wordpress claims all themes as derivative works. They are only derivative in the sense of calling functions from the WP program. I cite scholarly sources in academic papers all the time--that doesn't make my work derivative in the sense of the authors of those sources having control. But then again, I'm no lawyer.

    I think your takeaways are pretty much right on target. No matter what the particulars of this case are, I can't really imagine that developers are very inspired to work with WP at the moment. From my perspective, this casts an ugly shadow on WP no matter what the situation (it might do on Chris Pearson and Thesis as well, of course).
  • Felix
    I support Matt's view 100%. WordPress is GPL and if you use the WordPress functions this piece of work goes into the GPL as well.

    There is a commercial theme index on wordpress.org » http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/commercial/ All the big 100% GPL theme providers like studiopress, woo-themes and my RichWP are listed there.

    The introduction to that section makes it crystal clear that charging for for GPL licensed products isn't a problem: "Contrary to popular belief, GPL doesn't say that everything must be zero-cost, just that when you receive the software or theme that it not restrict your freedoms in how you use it. "
  • fredwu
    My personal opinion on this matter: http://fuckgpl.com/ ;)
  • I don't fully understand GPL, nor do I understand the issue here but I will say this, if Matt goes after Thesis, he must go after every other premium WP product right?
  • No, this is not a battle against "premium", it is a battle against not providing your work under the correct license. There are many premium themes and plugins that are under a GPL license that are no problem at all. In fact, most major premium offerings are licensed under the GPL (as it stands).

    Those premium theme developers who have switched to GPL have seen no decrease in signups or problems with the freedom to redistribute. The reality is that those people will share the files regardless of the license. If you offer value added services to paying customers like great support, easily accessible upgrades, and a bustling community then those who don't obtain the theme through your official channel are completely cut off.
  • Since I have now spent most of my day researching this (yeah like I had nothing better to do), I have found that Headway is also operating without GPL (according to a tweet by Matt). I have also found that it appears that any premium theme listed (or plugin etc..) under WP GPL can be freely redistributed? If this is true, and all this goes uber public with lawsuits, it changes a lot since most end users aren't aware of this fact, and people will be freely giving away premium products? I hope I am misunderstanding this interpretation of the GPL that WP uses.

    Also, Matt has offered to buy anyone that switches from Thesis a premium Theme of their choice, which to me is him just being a bully and not too smart.

    All this whole issue is going to do is divide and cause trouble in a great community....
  • As of right now, Headway Themes is a split license. Only that code which communicates directly with WordPress falls under the GPL. All other code, javascript, custom.css and images are under our own license. This is similar to how Press75.com does their license. And according to Matt, a split or dual license is completely "legal under the GPL."

    What too many see with the GPL is that they should get the product for free. This is simply not the case. No where in the GPL is a developer not allowed to sell their product for money.
  • Re-read my second paragraph, it seems like you missed my point about the freedom to redistribute and the fact that all of the other GPL premium themes do not find this to be a problem.
  • I read your second paragraph right the first time, what I am saying is that I don't think most end users understand it, and if what you are saying is that I can buy a premium theme or plugin and then can freely distribute it or do whatever I want to it, once this goes to court potentially millions of users will then know that and it could potentially hurt the developers.

    I don't think your everyday average user (like me) understands this completely, bu tif that is what GPL stands for, it may change a lot of developers minds about making WP products once the masses find out...
  • Just because it isn't a problem now doesn't mean it could be, and furthermore, just because I haven't killed anyone when I drink and drive doesn't mean it isn't a problem.

    It's a fundamental issue in an approach to business that's at stake here. I don't use Thesis, but I support Pearson in this one. GPL = Marxist.
  • Follow the masses Nathan! Oh, and congrat's on your entrance back into the general public :-)
  • I think that's a poor analogy but you're entitled to your opinion.
  • Not sure. As I understand, there are other premium offerings which use GPL as well. GPL doesn't prohibit you from charging money. WooThemes, for example, is under GPL. I think the issue may come down to protecting your code from being redistributed by others. Just seems to me that is a dumb restriction, because nobody is going to put a ton of work into a great add-on if they know anybody else can go and do whatever they want with their handiwork.
  • It's not that complex. GPL licensed premium themes or plugins do not impede on profits in comparison to other licenses (and maybe the reverse is true). Just aim to do business with honest people (who want to pay for good solutions) and realize that those that do abuse will do so regardless of a license. And like Matt and Andy have referred to, you still own your trademark so if somebody falsely uses your premium product, you still have a way of protecting your work.

    I don't think it is that beneficial to make WP sound like it is aggressive toward developers. It isn't. Thesis is a super small minority that breaks with GPL (headway already has switched). And to be quite honest, without an open license like GPL WordPress wouldn't have grown to the point it is. Matt has tried for over 2 years to persuade Chris Pearson and he doesn't want to sue, that's why I think he's doing everything he can to persuade Chris through other forms (he was very passive up until recent weeks). Whether it is an effective tactic is another matter.

    Keep in mind that Matt is also protecting the integrity of what has made WP a great open community and all of its contributors (that embrace the philosophy of WordPress). If you listen to the Mixergy interview Matt's tweets are more understandable. If they were hostile, they would have sued two years ago and Thesis would never have enjoyed anywhere near its success it has today. For a better understanding of Pearsons general attitude toward WordPress, listen to the Mixergy interview.
  • Last week's big controversy was the auto-capitalisation of the P in WordPress. This week the GPL debate has fired up again. Every time GPL comes up it is about Thesis it seems.

    I get the feeling there is a perception out there that Chris is taking customer's money and contributing nothing to the community. In fact once you're a DIYThemes customer the amount of support you get is overwhelmingly good, better than many other premium theme providers in the past (though the field has leveled out lately).

    Matt's position would have a lot more credibility with me if he went after the big non-GPL plugin makers with the same energy as he does with Chris and Thesis.

    Anyway, this will die off again or someone will sue someone and put an end to it forever.

    I prefer when the community at large just gets on with the awesome business of creating awesome things.
  • Agreed.

    And for me, Matt's position would have more credibility if he'd stop acting like such a child. Retweeting others' complaints is just passive-aggressive bullshit.
  • And openly poaching users.
  • Overall, here are my thoughts. If folks were not allowed to develop these types of premium themes, and charge for them, or plugins, or membership site widgets, etc, then there would not be as much motivation to produce great stuff to add on to wordpress. If the wordpress platform by itself were so great, there wouldn't be a need for these extras. So, there is a need, and I think it's great people are filling the gaps. Now, should it be with no money going back to Mullenweg, probably not. Maybe he should just be getting a cut from all the devloper goodies.

    I don't know, but thanks for shedding some light on this subject.
  • There is absolutely no problem with developing and charging for themes and plugins, that is not the argument. The problem is when you don't respect the license of WordPress (GPL) and provide your work under that same license.
  • Dave and Andy,
    thanks for clarifying. I guess i'm in Keith's boat above where I ended up having to spend some more time researching. Interesting. Never really knew about it. But, way I figure..spent enough of my time on it...now time to get back to work ;)

    Thanks again for straightening me out.

    Brandon
  • I think, by the letter of the license, you could still charge for them. But, then others would have the right to take what they bought and go out and re-duplicate the product. So, essentially, there is no protection of your own work if you develop for Wordpress, per Matt's argument.
  • See my reply to the first comment re: no protection.
  • #WP & GPL & #thesiswp... As "Dirty" Harry would say "Opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one."

    (Good job summing up the thing Dave)

    When an idea (like Open Source) is taken to the extreme, and it turns into idealism, things go the wrong way... Open Source is awesome, but it becomes a religion that is FORCED into people, they back away. GPL is indeed very problematic, the whole derivative work stuff confuses even the highly paid lawyers (who are jumping for joy for this debate btw)...

    Principles, and standing behind ones opinions is cool, but it's also dangerous. That is how wars are started, when no-one backs away and compromises. I'm sad to see the most popular blogging platform taking a hit like this. People should cool down, take it easy and make the world a better place.
  • Kristoffer Sandven
    I'm not a Wordpress user. Rather, I use Joomla for everything I do - that's what my blog www.joomlablogger.net is all about, right? ;)

    Joomla has a different perspective on this. The Joomla Extensions Directory, which is the official directory of Joomla modules, components and plug-ins, demand that the extensions published there are GPL. No encryption or pay-per-domain or such things. That's fine, and was introduced last year.

    However, templates (themes) for Joomla are not restricted by this. Of course, Joomla users love it when the template is unencrypted (makes it easier to modify). But there's no restrictions on the templates from the Joomla project. I believe that's why we have thousands upon thousands of templates for Joomla available. People are making good money making and selling them. From what I understand, WP themes are not that plenty.

    There are a lot of Joomla template devs going for WordPress and Drupal these days. It will be interesting to see if they can make a solid a business with WP or Drupal as they did with Joomla.

    GPL is complex, and something most people don't know much about.

    The Joomla project approach clearly shows that it's possible to make money with GPL extensions. We'll see if the same holds true for GPL templates.
  • Andrew at Mixergy interviewed Chris Pearson and asked just this question. Definetly worth a listen.

    My take is Thesis should be pay to play. As a user of headway, which allowed me to created my amazing and beautiful site without paying some design firm thousands of dollars, I have no problem forking over cash for something awesome.

    By thesis/headway costing an investment, it gives the developers an incentive to constantly improve, and provide quality, and develops a community more serious like minded folks as opposed to the something for nothing crowd.

    The alternative would be a bunch of free themes for the masses, and only the few who had any money could afford a beautiful custom design. Thesis/Headway = more freedom of expression.

    Also, mars has a good point. The existence of these premium themes only incentives more to use wordpress. I think this whole things boils down to a difference in philosophy.
  • The problem is not premium, it is the license that they are distributed under. There is no problem with premium themes as long as they are GPL licensed.
  • I love Wordpress. But the way this is all trickling out just sours my love of it in the wrong way and that's too bad. I know for myself I'll be looking to support the alternatives so that the alternatives continue to exist.
  • Same here, even if I have to pay for them.
  • Hi David, I agree with you too. I'm not a big fan of Chris Pearson but in this case I'm on his side precisely for the reasons you listed out.

    I love WordPress too. I've built my business on it. But these shenanigans are really starting to feel stupid.
  • I'm not very educated on the GPL, but I have no problem with developers charging for themes. They've put a lot (and continue to) of work into making these themes and frameworks fabulous and keeping them that way. I'm not a fan of Thesis, but I do use and recommend Headway as well as the Genesis framework from StudioPress. I'm happy to pay for both of these.

    If every theme/framework had to be free/under GPL then professional developers like my husband couldn't copyright the custom themes he creates for clients... anyone would be able to copy, modify, and share them.
  • Matt doesn't have a problem with developers charging for themes/plugins either.

    I'm curious though, why does your husband retain copyright over works he is paid to produce for clients?

    Regardless, he can still copyright images, Javascript, and CSS, just not the theme code that calls WordPress functions (thats how Matt says the GPL applies).
  • Yes, the client actually owns the copyright once the job is completed and paid for, but same diference... If every theme had to be free/under gpl, anyone could use it, and why would clients pay to have themes built if they could snag any theme for free?

    Like I said, not studied up on gpl or Matt's views, but slightly concerned with what all this could mean for developers.



    -- Sent from my Palm Pre
  • This is not the case. A project built for a client is not a public distributed product. It is a private project and does not fall under the GPL.
  • "If every theme had to be free/under gpl" - no it does not have to be free (as in cost). GPL does not equal free as in cost, but free as in the freedom to redistribute.
  • oh man, I don't understand Matt - he should be thankful for what Chris has done.
    I don't want to know how much value Thesis has given Wordpress, and has increased the numbers of people using it.
  • How about Chris should be thankful for what Matt has done? Without Matt there would be no WordPress. Cart before the horse?
  • Maybe, but he should be thankful for people enhancing his platform and making a business from it.

    Why would you ever limit the potential of someone helping you improve and spread your stuff ? So what if Chris doesn't want people to redistribute his code ? His work, his credit. Love it, or leave it.
  • What specific value has Thesis has given to the WordPress community as a whole? (I just like to hear some specifics) I've seen this mentioned by a couple of people and having used Thesis myself as a developer for clients who bought Thesis I fail to understand it's magnificent contributions. Maybe someone could enlighten me. From my clients experiences, what I get is that they feel Thesis is good for SEO (but without them knowing the ins and out of SEO it's hard to verify), they think it stands for quality because it is premium, they think it is flexible but they don't know how to tweak it. The only thing I have noticed is that they appear to have good support - can't even vouch for that because I've had clients come to me to tweak their Thesis themes.

    It is kind of ridiculous in comparison to the hundreds of developers out there that have contributed in there own ways. There are free plugins out there that have made more impact than Thesis - just because Pearson has made a thriving business for himself doesn't mean he's made a more noteworthy contribution to the WordPress community as a whole compared to the hundreds of plugin devs, theme devs and WP code contributors.
  • Hello David. I wanted to avoid bashing Matt Mullenweg online but this is the second negative thing I heard about him this week. Firstly, he added a code in WordPress 3.0 that changes anything that is spelt as Wordpress into WordPress.

    To test this theory (oh well, it not a theory anymore), upgrade to the latest version of WordPress and you'll see that word in this post being changed automatically. The part where you said, "I want to love Wordpress for years to come.".

    There's an uproar in the community about this and it hasn't ended yet. The uproar is caused by the fact that this code was added in without consultation from the community. Read more from http://justintadlock.com/archives/2010/07/08/lowercase-p-dangit.

    Now this. I agree with you that Matt Mullenweg is being totally unprofessional. The more I hear about Matt, the more I think he is being totally narcissistic. Automattic is a business, so protect it but don't forget the community that has contributed to its success.

    Not sure how all this started but seriously, it have been could be handled in a more amicable manner. It's very sad to see the founder of WordPress getting involved in trivial matters. Could this be the beginning of the end for WordPress?
  • Just FYI, Matt's argument is not against premium themes, but against not using open source code. Using Matt's logic, I could buy Thesis, download it, copy it, rebrand it, and sell it.
  • It's not Matt's logic, it's the GPL's freedom to redistribute.

    Yes you could do that, but people who buy a redistributed premium GPL theme have no access to the community, feedback loop, support or free upgrades. Adding value around a product to legitimate buyers is a license friendly incentive.
  • But Matt, and the marxist WP community is the one hell bent on seeing it through. Most people don't care about a fricking community, or feedback loops, or support. They just want a damn theme that looks nice.

    Using that as the end-around way to force developers to give away their work is anti-capitalist and that's my problem with it.
  • I don't agree, I think community, support, feedback and accountability are one of the main reasons people go for premium themes and not free ones that "look nice".
  • You think or you know? Have you ever worked with clients? They don't give a damn as long as it looks nice.

    I've bought a theme from every major provider and never used a support forum once. I could care less about any of that.
  • I am not 100% educated on the whole argument. However, the little I have read sounds like sour-grapes a little bit from Matt. Maybe it isn't? I don't know.

    I think once you tell DIY that they can't sell Thesis, where does it stop? There are plenty of developers out there selling custom themes, me for one. I love Wordpress, but depending on how this shakes out, I might be looking for another platform to develop for.

    I have plenty of paid software and freeware that I use on a daily basis. There is a place for it all. Usually the paid software is better because of the available freeware.
  • They are not being told to stop selling the theme, just to change their license to GPL. Everything else can stay the same.
  • Well, I don't particularly like that someone would be able to tell me, or anyone else for that matter, which license I should be using.

    Where is the freedom in that?
  • They have lots of freedom, freedom to build on another platform, or freedom to write their own platform.
  • Whatever the case is, the issue for me boils down to how this affects me. I use Thesis and by extension Wordpress. I have also created custom themes for a few people.

    If there is going to be any legal issues with any of that I need to know... my clients surely will want to be informed.
  • I do not believe a suite by WordPress against Thesis or any other non-GPL theme will affect any project built for clients. The two are not the same.

    We looked long and hard at the GPL issue and only recently put Headway under the GPL as a split/dual license.

    As far as telling someone what license they should be using. If you look at license law, it is usually the case that a product built that communicates and works with another product, inherits that products license.

    Let me just say, I am not in complete agreement that every piece of work is automatically brought under the other product's license. It is very clear this is a topic that has not been decided by the courts. If the WordPress vs. Thesis argument goes to court, perhaps we will have an answer once and for all. However, I hope it does not come to that. A court case , no matter the outcome is not going to be good for either WordPress nor Thesis.
  • No, the legal issue will be with DIYThemes not the end users. The result would give you more freedom as an end user, not less.
  • A legal issue for DIY does affect the end users who have bought the product. I don't see how it doesn't.

    Promises of more freedom ring pretty hollow based on previous experiences.
  • briangarbisch
    David,
    Good op-ed piece, I do believe the issue is deeper than that and GPL is just an excuse. I don't have an inside to either but these issues often arise when somebody wants something that they don't have.

    Brian
  • Yeah, I hear ya on that. I know that the way Matt was conducting himself on Twitter, it seemed about a lot more than a legal thing. He was acting immature at best, IMO.
  • I'm just curious, how they expect the people behind the premium wordpress themes and plugins to make a living?
  • Most premium themes and plugins are under the GPL and have no problems whatsoever.
  • There are plenty of premium theme companies making a very successful living off GPL licensed themes. The revenue question isn't really the issue. Chris doesn't believe Thesis inherits the GPL from WordPress, Matt does.
  • I agree with you, particularly because I am going to buy Thesis next month and start using it.
    Lots of people prefer to use a premium Wordpress theme for good reason.
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